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Jul 5 09 4:43 PM

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Please, share your experiences with me!  After 2 weeks of getting up to a full strength protocal (allicinin and 900 artimesinin)  and about 6 days on full protocol I became so sick I couldn't function.  I could hardly get out of bed, very, very heavy and dizzy head, headaches, nausea.  By the third day I couldn't eat at all, and realized I can't continue like this.  So I stopped, and it took me weeks to recover.  The big question is this a herx or just too much drugs. Any insights? 

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#1 [url]

Jul 20 09 3:14 AM

How did you get started on the protocol? Did you have a phone/office appointment with Dr. Zhang? Did you read something online (or Dr. Zhang's book) and decide to try the protocol? Six days on the full protocol sounds like Herx timing. I had an ugly, in-bed Herx that started at day 5 and went for about 6 days. After that my body slowly adapted and by the end of the first month was I starting to feel better. By the end of the third month I was better than I have been for the last year. Last month, I accidentally ordered Artimesia 2 (double the strength of regular Artemisia) and had the same reaction you describe; by the third day I couldn't handle it either. I got rid of the Artemisia 2, went back to Artemisia, and was fine. If you had an appointment with Dr. Zhang and he recommended the combination of herbal formulas you are taking, you should call and talk to him about your reaction. If you've never talked to him, you should consider a phone appointment. He's very easy to talk to. You don't mention anything other than Allicin and Artemisia. I had an office appointment and he recommended those two, but also Circulation P and AI#3. These may have helped to mitigate the response you had, especially the AI#3. After three months of taking AI #3, which acts like a corticosteroid and helps with pain management, one needs to take a 30 day break. I'm in my 30 day break period and I can't wait to get back to it, because it really does help. The phone appointment isn't all that expensive, relative to what most of the Lyme-Literate MD's charge. Don't give up. I'm only 3-1/2 months in, but this is the most promising, easy-on-the-internal-organs treatment I've had since my diagnosis 15 months ago. 

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#2 [url]

Dec 30 09 4:34 PM

Hello everyone,
I have been taking Dr. Zhang's protocol, the first segment( Circ, Allicin, AI-3, and Artemesia) since 11/3 and have had no changes.  Was taking many different herbal treatments from other practitioners
and waited for one month after seeing Dr. Zhang on October 2nd. 
I know that it differs from person to person, and is contingent on the duration of the infection.
I have had multiple exposures to Lyme over the years but never knew what it was.

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#3 [url]

Jun 4 10 12:13 PM

I have had chronic Lyme for over 10years, but was diagnosed about 14 months ago.  My presenting symptoms were acid reflux and neuro issues.  After single handedly keeping the medical profession afloat by seeing them all and being told I was nuts, I finally found a Lyme Literate doctor.  I was on a bunch of different abx and supplements and got some relief, but my insomnia got progressively worse and my immune system was non existent.  I was a magnet for every bug that was within ten miles.  I knew that I had to try something else and get off the abx.  I decided to phone Dr. Zhang and had my first appointment with him about a month ago.  Prior to starting with his protocol, I introduced Samento and Banderol, went down to one abx a day and introduced my own doctor's artemisia.  I got relief from the acid reflux, but the insomnia was still in high gear.  Then this past Wednesday, I started with Dr. Zhang's protocol of his artemisia, AI-3, Circulation P and Coptis and stopped the abx, which I was told I could do and was happy to drop it.  Almost immediately, the severe acid reflux returned.  I don't know if this is the way I herx or if I can't tolerate the protocol, but I am hoping it is the former, so I am sticking with the herbs to see.  I have continued with the other supplements that I have used prior to Dr. Zhang's herbs but wanted to hear from others if this sounds normal?  Thanks and I remain,

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#4 [url]

Jun 10 10 5:51 PM

Thank you robertmilby and Hopeful for your posts,   I had to laugh when Hopeful,  you said that
 you had singlehandedly been keeping the medical profession afloat by seeing them all. in the past.
       I had a similar experience and I'm glad I can laugh now.  As most people know,  it's far from
       amusing at the time.  
                 I also had been taking samento and banderol before calling Dr. Zhang.  I take it you're
        doing the tinctures?   I also had a very upset stomach last summer....Alot of acid reflux too but
       I wasn't on antibiotics.   It didn't go away with the tinctures.   I read on the label that they have
       25% alcohol which I'd been steaming off.   Still,  I set them aside after about 3 weeks of being
       in pain.  ( I also took some pinworm medicine in case I had those and parasite herbal formula. )
                 Then.   I changed my diet.   I stopped eating dairy, the little chicken I was having and cut
            back on gluten, wheat and such. Mainly,  green smoothies, and steamed veggies and rice.
                Mild teas and water. 
                  In about 4 weeks,  I started feeling better.   Also,  I was taking the same Zhang herbs
              which you mentioned.  and they did not cause any strong reaction.
                         I'm still following this same way,  pretty much,  and I'm feeling well.  I know these
              changes aren't for everyone.   We all react differently.  And I'm not suggesting you or
               anyone make these changes in diet,  but I do feel that it has helped me.  So I wanted
               to share that.     
                              I also found that Herb Som helped me with sleep.   Have you
             tried that one?      Good wishes to you with what you're doing.  
                                                                   keep us posted if you would 

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#5 [url]

Jun 11 10 11:48 AM

Dear Rosequartz,

Many thanks for your response.  I was beginning to think no one was out there, so I feel better just knowing that there is.

Since my presenting symptoms were acid reflux, it actually does not surprise me that it has surfaced again.  I am  currently off all abx and in the past, I was unable to sleep at all when I had stopped them.  Now with Dr.Zhang's protocol, I am getting SOME sleep.  I still have to take a lot of herbs and 1/2 a sleeping pill, but in comparison with what it has been, I will take it.  Dr. Zhang said that the better I become, the better the sleep will be, so I am holding on to that.  I had tried Herbsom before, when I was still on abx and it did not help me, but I will try it again when I am further along on the protocol.

I do juice in the morning and find that kale is like rocket fuel.  Who knew?  As far as dairy, I do not eat any cow's milk, but a bit of sheep's milk with my pills does help to settle my stomach.  I also have hypothyroidism and am on meds for that.  My dr, who has prescribed  one of those meds, said that I need a 4 hour window of no supplements or meds in which to take them.. Are you kidding! Saying that to a Lyme patient, at least to me, is like hoping that I can fly! So I am playing around with them the best that I can and remain hopeful that Dr. Zhang's protocol will eventually bring me the relief that I yearn for.  I have become extremely patient since I have had chronic Lyme and know that I will get better.  I am stronger than it is and certainly more tenacious.  I trust that all of us with chronic Lyme have had to become that way.

I remain,

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#6 [url]

Jun 12 10 3:08 PM

      Dear Hopeful,
                         You're welcome for my response.   It sounds like things are taking a good
            turn for you and that was encouraging to hear.  Staying positive is important to me
                 and it's good to know you have more patience. 
                                           Also nice to know that you're juicing and that
             kale is giving you a boost.   Yes.  Rocket fuel.
                              Kale is an 'odd' thing. with all those curly edges,
               and I'm using it as well along with
                celery carrots cukes and all those tasty veggies.    Sometimes in smoothies or to
             juice.      I too am on medication   (armor)
                  for hypothyroidism which seems to be working for the
                past 7 years.      I know what you mean.   I wait an hour after taking it,  but 4???
                         That would be most difficult.   I'm chomping down supplements as I type and
                    it's been about 1 hour.   Like to get them going before the day starts.    Sort of
                    give myself a running start.
                                 I'm listing a  place I go on the net where I go to hear other Lyme
                         people share besides this forum.     
                             .   It is Lyme-Aid.   That gets alot of people daily.   I don't open all the
                         emails which come through.    But many are very helpful.    Also,  came across
                            a Facebook place last week which is:  Live-Laugh-Lyme.   You would
                             probably appreciate that one!    There's
                             Lymegreens which seems to be an offshoot of that also on Facebook. 
                                      There's a site on Daily Strength where people share and give support.
                              I don't know how much you wish to explore.   It's good here and
                      at the same time the posts are less frequent.    Feel free to write whenever
                                    you wish and welcome and good wishes today,   rq     

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#7 [url]

Jun 12 10 5:58 PM

Dear Rosequartz:

Thank you for your response and for the on line tips.  I will look them up as well.

Well it looks as though I was a bit premature.  I have been on Dr. Zhang's herbs for ten days, and yes, getting off the abx has helped me sleep a bit better, but the acid reflux is alive and well.  I thought perhaps I would stop taking the Samento and Banderol to see if that would make a difference, so today I stopped them both, and the reflux is even worse.  So I guess I will add them back in again.  I  know that it is rather early to get in touch with Dr. Zhang about the reaction I am having and keep hoping that it will settle down.  The acid reflux is not like most heartburns; it never has been.  It is a deep pain in between my shoulder blades.  Rolling on a ball on my back helps and chewing gum does as well; but getting rid of it entirely would be even better.  I am hoping that is just the critters rearing their ugly heads, but it does get tiresome. 
I am still able to work out, and although it makes me more tired than I would normally be, whatever that is anymore, it does make me  feel less deprived.  I am trying hard not to give into this, but after ten years, it does wear on one a bit.  Sorry this is not more upbeat, but as I always end my notes, I will continue to remain,

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#8 [url]

Jun 17 10 2:17 AM

A doctor today described similar symptoms to me -- just today -- as gallbladder -- wonder if you've ever had that checked, an ultra sound, for stones or problems .... could be, you're right it isn't usual for acid reflux.   Gastritus also can cause pain between the shoulders, just possibilities .... 
all the best for you.  Mira

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#9 [url]

Jun 17 10 5:07 PM

      Hello Hopeful, 
                        I agree with what Mira wrote.  Having your gall bladder checked.
            Maybe you've done this already.   Maybe,  I mentioned that when I had severe
               stomach pain last summer,  I had an ultrasound on liver, stomach and gallbladder.
             It said I had no stones,  but I had cysts on the gall bladder.   They also said
              these were not of any concern.   Has anyone else had this? 
                                         I'm wondering.
                      In any case last month I expanded my diet and started feeling really
                    lousey.  I didn't eat too many fats but rather spices and richer foods.
                              I'm now drinking the green soup,   And lemon with water.  And
                    taking it real easy.  I strongly feel this is what's been causing my digestive
                      problems too.    Good wishes to you.. 

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#10 [url]

Jun 17 10 5:18 PM

Hello Ulster 12429,   My experiences on the protocol have been different.   When I started with
  what you're taking,   I didn't have a major herx.  So.  I have been treaed for Babesia before and
 some of the coinfections.  That may've made a difference.  I don't know what your previous
  experiences in treatment, if any, have been or whether or not you're taking any supplements or
   other drugs.   I also know that sometimes our detox pathways,  methylation pathways are
   blocked and so we may have a harder time getting rid of the biotoxins or die offs. 
            Whatever may be going on,  I would call Dr. Zhang and see what he has to say.
       Even if it's early in the treatment to get a better idea.   

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#11 [url]

Jun 17 10 5:20 PM

   Hello Robert,
                How're you doing?   Maybe you've posted.  I was curious to know how you're
               doing?   If you're still following the protocol.   best wishes,   rq 

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#12 [url]

Jun 18 10 11:59 AM

I appreciate the suggestion about the gallbladder, but that was tried many years ago when my symptoms presented themselves in a non tradition way. I did speak with Dr. Zhang this week and he feels that often the presenting symptom comes back again, probably like herxing, when a new protocol is introduced.  I know something is changing because last night was the first night in over a year that I did not take any sleeping medication.  I did take herbs and didn't sleep throughout the night, but I did sleep more than I thought I would without my usual 1/2 pill of Clonazapam.

I am also noticing that my chronic plantar fasciitis is not as acute as it has been and my mood is a bit brighter. So even though these may not be MAJOR changes, they are telling me that I need to give it more time.  I am remaining positive and open to what comes my way.  I am grateful for this forum.

As always, I remain,


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#14 [url]

May 5 11 11:03 AM

Dr Zhangs treatment protocol longterm

I'm thinking of doing Dr Zhangs treatment protocol and am interested to see how the long timers on these meds are travelling?

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